Q1. You have to trim and edit things before they air, but is there a specific scene or scenes that you had a difficult time cutting that you really wanted in the final production?
JD: Every cut we make, we do it because we think it's what’s best of the show. One cut that was challenging, without getting too specific, was some material that focused on The Stranger’s journey of self-discovery with Tom Bombadil. As we went through the editorial process of looking at what we had, and what we'd shot, and what we felt really worked, some of this got truncated. In some alternate universe where things had worked out differently, it felt like there could have been a story akin to Luke in Dagobah, with The Stranger learning more about his powers from Tom Bombadil, that would have been fun to see.
Patrick: There's fewer scenes, especially season two, that we dropped than you would think. I think there were two I can think of, Númenor scenes, but that ultimately felt like they were redundant with something that was covered elsewhere. There was a really nice scene where Valandil and Eärien took a walk through the city and they were lovely. It was all about how much they were grieving Isildur, but the audience was like, “we know he's alive”. And the minute we dropped it, even though it was sad to see it go, the story had more energy. So that's maybe just to give you a sense of the kind of thinking that goes into these things.
Q2. Do you guys have a favorite thing in the lore that you know for sure you won’t be able to put into the show?
JD: I think we never want to say never. There's a bunch of things that could jump to the top of this list. There's stuff in the Third Age we probably won't cover. Or there’s some details from The Silmarillion that would enrich our storytelling, but that we don't have the rights to. But again, you never want to say never — there are things like the name “Annatar” that we originally wouldn’t have been able to use, that the Tolkien Estate graciously stepped in and made possible. We have some other pieces of lore like that on our wish list that we’ll have to wait and see what happens with. The road goes ever on! So, I think for now we'll just say that's TBD.
Patrick: I don't have a better answer than that other than to say, you know, Gollum is one of my favorite characters in the legendarium. He’s such a rich, complex character but I can't imagine a world where we would ever do anything with him in this show. Even at the very, very end. Which is too bad because he's so great, but then also maybe it's a good thing because he was done so brilliantly and iconically in the films by Peter and his collaborators and Andy Serkis. But it's like, that's a toy that would be fun to be able to play with.
Q3. Now that we know it is Gandalf and a Dark Wizard instead of the two blues, does this rule out the possibility of blues being in the show? Also, can you definitively rule out Saruman being the Dark Wizard?
Patrick: I think it's hard to say anything is 100%, but we have no plans or intention to have him be Saruman. We are not thinking of him as Saruman. We know there are five wizards talked about in The Lord of the Rings. One of them is Saruman, one of them is Gandalf, one of them is Radagast, and then there are two others. It is our expectation that he will be one of those two others.
JD: What I'll say is, I think it would be difficult logically to see how he could be Saruman. It would be sort of a “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me” for Gandalf. If the Dark Wizard was going to be Saruman, then he would be an evil wizard that Gandalf was interacting with and fighting in the Second Age. And then he'd have to become good again and regain Gandalf’s trust, only to later turn evil again and betray him. It would just sort of strain credulity.
Patrick: What I would say to add to that is, you know, again, we're not sort of playing fast and loose or, or trying to be tricky - characters reveal themselves to you as you go forward with their stories and, you know, The Stranger revealed more and more and more of who he was. It's just very hard to imagine that the Dark Wizard would be Saruman. I think while we want to be open as creators to every corner of the legendarium, I don't think that's going to happen.
Q4. What canon characters are you guys most excited to introduce in the future?
JD: Several.
Patrick: That’s it!
Q5. How did Arondir not die between episodes 7 and 8? He was stabbed pretty good but in episode 8 he had the strength to fight back against the Uruks alongside the other elves. Then finished the season with Gil-galad, Elrond and Galadriel overlooking and inspiring the rest of the elves. Was there magic ring healing or was the injury just not in a fatal spot?
Patrick: So, this is a funny one. It was not a mortal blow. He was injured and defeated. We held the camera on him in a shot of him crawling on the ground. You're supposed to know “Okay, he's down, but he's not out”. Elves are elves. The first thing he says is elves heal of their own accord, unless the wound is like especially grievous or mortal. This was not a mortal wound. Is it possible that the king, as they were in captivity, might’ve used some magic to help him? Possibly. But we didn't even think the wound was that serious. We thought Adar beat him. When you lose a title fight boxing match, you're not dead. You're out for the count. And Adar defeated him in combat. He did not mortally wound him. But I think we realize now watching it, it's so surprising when Arondir is defeated because he's such an amazing hero. It feels more momentous even than that.
Q6. Sauron spent time smithing in Númenor, he worked directly with Celebrimbor to have him craft rings of power so he has seen the process… At this point, does Sauron have everything he needs to craft The One Ring?
JD: I think you'd need to ask yourself — did he see everything that the elven smiths did in the process? Go back and watch very carefully, what he was there for, what he wasn't there for. We know from the legendarium that Sauron never touched the elven three. So, I think we can say, just watch very carefully.
Patrick: No, I mean, he was not present for the forging of the three. Clearly, he was intimately involved and providing instruction and getting his hands on the actual works for the seven and the nine. And so, all we can do is point to what's already there, but certainly it sure feels like Sauron needed Celebrimbor and could not have made these rings without him.
JD: We sort of like to think of the building of the rings as akin to atomic energy. It's like Sauron was there for all the theoretical physics that underpinned the splitting of the atom and the dawn of the nuclear age. But he wasn't actually there when the first bomb was built in the laboratory. So, what happens between concept and execution, as any screenwriter and producer knows, can be a lot. So go back and check it out.
Q7. Fans have really dug the flashbacks and we open with flashbacks for season 1 and season 2. Could we see more in season 3 or is that something you don’t want to overdo?
Patrick: We actually like the idea that each season might start with a different slice of Middle-earth focused on a different character than it was last time maybe. Maybe you'd go to title after an extended section that tells you something new about a character and maybe goes to a time in their life that we haven't yet explored or seen on screen. We like the idea that this becomes one of the refrains of the show. That could change at any time as rules are made to be broken. But I will say at this time, as we're thinking about the story, we have a flashback that would start season three. And then maybe a couple more flashbacks sprinkled throughout the season. We always want to explore new corners of Middle-earth, and we always love showing you a new side of a character you haven't seen before. So that's a non-answer, but hopefully answer enough.
JD: Something we can also say is, one of the things we love about Tolkien is how rich and layered his history is — his characters, his worlds, his peoples — all of them have these histories that are incredible. The immortal characters go back thousands of years. And even the characters that aren't immortal are part of lands and peoples whose histories go back thousands of years. It's almost like the work of a geologist as you're going through it, unpacking all the different layers. But as storytellers, you also have to be very careful with flashbacks because too many of them can sort of stop the story dead. A story always has to be moving forward. If you just get into flashbacks or backstory for backstory’s sake, it can end up miring you down, and deflating your story and interrupting your momentum. But the right flashback at the right time for the right character in the right place can open up an entire new understanding of a character's journey and story. As Patrick said, I think we've liked formally the idea of opening seasons that way. And as for what happens in the future, again, stay tuned.
Q8. There are some camera shots looking down on Galadriel when she is in need of healing that almost looks like an eye in the middle of the shot…there is a very popular theory that this is Sauron checking in / looking down at her - could you confirm or is this just a neat shot for the camera?
JD: When it comes to artistic interpretation, and the role that creators take on once they've put their work out into the world — there's this idea in literary criticism of “the intentional fallacy,” which critiques the notion that to truly understand the meaning of a work, one needs to somehow go back and figure out the author's original intent. Sure, authorial intent can shed light on what a work is trying to accomplish, just like we did with Arondir a second ago - “Oh, actually, we're going for this other thing, and people took it this way…” And we're always game for that. But what's also fascinating and really rewarding, I think, as creators is that... once you create something, it's out there in the world. And people are going to have all kinds of readings of it.
And sometimes themes will have bubbled up in the writing and in the production that you weren't even necessarily aware of — either subconsciously, or happening as a sort of collective unconscious of the entire group of people that brought this thing together. Then, people in the world will take the finished work and start analyzing it from all kinds of different directions, and we’ll look at their readings and feel like, “wow, that's a really smart and sophisticated reading. I really like that.” Patrick, do you have anything you want to add?
Patrick: Yeah, it was just a neat shot for the camera.
Q9. You have had quite a few creatures on the show already - Ents, Uruks, nameless creatures in the mud, sea beasts, wights, elves and even a balrog - fans who don’t like dwarves are wondering with how phenomenal the VFX/CGI team has been on the show if we could see dragons in the future?
Patrick: I would say dragons are special and unique in Tolkien. There are some legendary dragons with legendary names. Dragons talk in Tolkien. We'd have to have the right reason to do it and at the right moment. I think it's pretty hard to top Benedict Cumberbatch's Smaug. And there is another fantasy show with lots of dragons. I think the answer is maybe. And if we go there, it'll be because there's a great Tolkienian idea and reason to go there that we have to do.