• Приветствуем вас на 7Bastards!

    Большую часть разделов форума могут просматривать только зарегистрированные пользователи.
    Если вы уже зарегистрированы, пожалуйста, войдите в свой аккаунт.
    Если нет — зарегистрируйтесь с помощью кнопки в верхней правой части экрана или на странице https://7kingdomsbastards.ru/register/.

    В случае возникновения сложностей с доступом, пишите нам на sevenbastards@mail.ru.

Дом Старк

Iceling

Ланнистеровед
Бегло просматривала все записи "Так сказал Мартин" на сайте Цитадели, ничего нового, естественно, и самые информативные записи в основном примерно 20-летний давности, но всёже пораскидываю по разным темам основное (за то, что мой взгляд зацепился как за основное, вернее), чтоб, в случае чего, освежить память и долго не искать. :) Точные цитаты со ссылками под катом, дословный перевод цитат по запросу.)

- О падении Неда в КГ. Санса сыграла роль, подсказав Серсее корабль, количество людей в эскорте, командующего и где Арья будет утром, что помогло Серсее с планировкой и таймингом. Разговор с Мизинцем был поворотной точкой, отказ Неда от предложения Ренли тоже был критическим. Следует учитывать Вариса, а так же Слинта, который мог выбрать выполнение своих обязанностей вместо продажи ЗП.
The way I see it, it is not a case of all or nothing. No single person is to blame for Ned's downfall. Sansa played a role, certainly, but it would be unfair to put all the blame on her. But it would also be unfair to exonerate her. She was not privy to all of Ned's plans regarding Stannis, the gold cloaks, etc... but she knew more than just that her father planned to spirit her and Arya away from King's Landing. She knew when they were to leave, on what ship, how many men would be in their escort, who would have the command, where Arya was that morning, etc... all of which was useful to Cersei in planning and timing her move.
Ned's talk with Littlefinger was certainly a turning point, though I am not sure I would call it =the= turning point. There were other crucial decisions that could easily have changed all had they gone differently. You mention Ned's refusal of Renly, which was equally critical. And there is Varys to consider, as well as the minor but crucial player everyone forgets -- Janos Slynt, who might have chosen just to do his duty instead of selling the gold cloaks to the highest bidder.
So... all in all, I suppose my answer would be that there is no single villain in the piece who caused it all, but rather a good half dozen players whose actions were all in part responsible for what happened.


- Об обращении Кейтелин с Джоном. "Жестокое обращение" - слишком сильные слова. Она не била его, не оскорбляла (случай в комнате Брана был исключением). Она дистанцировалась от него; активно защищала наследственные права своих детей, из-за чего проводила чёткую линию между законнорождёнными детьми и бастардом. И Джон точно знал, что она предпочла бы видеть его где-нибудь в другом месте.
"Mistreatment" is a loaded word. Did Catelyn beat Jon bloody? No. Did she distance herself from him? Yes. Did she verbally abuse and attack him? No. (The instance in Bran's bedroom was obviously a very special case). But I am sure she was very protective of the rights of her own children, and in that sense always drew the line sharply between bastard and trueborn where issues like seating on the high table for the king's visit were at issue.
And Jon surely knew that she would have preferred to have him elsewhere.


- О покушении на Брана. Первые две книги, скорее всего, содержат достаточно информации для вычисления заказчика. В третьей, БМ, дополнительная информация.
There's a couple of additional things to be revealed in SOS... but I think the answer could be worked out from the first two books alone, yes... though of course, =I've= known the truth all along, so in some ways it's hard for me to judge.


- Армия Неда не сопровождала его в Дорн во время ВБ. Там не было битв, но несомненно были мелкие стычки на границах.
Ned's army did not accompany him to Dorne, no. There were no battles in Dorne during Robert's Rebellion, though doubtless there were minor skirmishes along the borders.


- О Неде в Долине и на Севере. Будучи воспитанником в Долине, в первые пять лет, выполняя фактически обязанности пажа, а затем оруженосца, он возвращался домой реже, потом - чаще и на более долгий период. Во время своей службы в качестве "оруженосца" он также часто сопровождал Аррена в путешествиях за пределы Долины. По достижении 16-ти лет он был свободен приезжать и уезжать, когда захочет, деля время между домом и Долиной. То же самое относится и к Роберту, который по достижении совершеннолетия делил время между ШП и Долиной, а так же турнирами и любыми шансами подраться/повоевать.
Yes, certainly he [Ned ]returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.


- Бенджен присоединился к НД примерно в то время, когда Нед вернулся с войны, и Кейтелин, Робб и Джон поселились в Винтерфелле.
[This one is probably trivial, but when did Benjen join the Watch? Right after the war against the Targaryens, more or less?]
Pretty much, yes. Probably around about the time Ned returned from the south and Catelyn and Robb and Jon took up residence.


- Джон знал, кем он был, когда присоединялся к НД. Он не знал, кто его мать, но это не считается. (В ответ на вопрос о возможности ануляции клятвы для НД)
[Tigers14: another question, can NW vows be annulled if a person had no idea who he really was when he took them?]
GeoRR: who had no idea who he was?
[Tigers14: jon]
GeoRR: Jon knows who he is. He may not know who his mother is, but that's not the same thing. There are plenty of orphans and bastards in the Watch who don't know who their parents are.


- О талантах сыновей Рикарда. Брандон был лучшим из Старков в умении владения мечом, и в турнирах сходках. У Бенджена были навыки, хорошо служившие ему как разведчику. Нед, скорее всего, был лучшим боевым командиром.
Brandon was the best of the Starks with sword in hand, and the best jouster as well. But Benjen has other skills that serve him well as a ranger... and Ned was likely the best battle commander.


- Ни правящей Леди Винтерфелла, ни Королевы Зимы, никогда не было.
[Have there ever been a ruling Lady of Winterfell or Queen of Winter?]
No. Although I do hope to someday write the Dunk & Egg story where they travel to Winterfell and meet the She-Wolves.


- У Рикарда не было братьев; у Брандона не было детей, о которых известно (но он мог понаоставлять "Снежков").
It's true that in recent times, the Starks have become quite scarce. There's not many of them in the present generatons. Some may say it's because Ned's siblings died. Brandon died before he had sons, and Lyanna is also dead, and Benjen joined the Night's Watch which means he doesn't have descendants either. It might also have to do with their father, Rickard, who was an only son and I'd have to go back to my notes to see why he was the only child -- and really, I'm speaking from memory, so that may not be quite right.
<...>
[In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?]
It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

 
Сверху Снизу